Interview from Anti Christian Metal with Zaragil and Otrebor, October 5th 2008

1. Give us a quick rundown, who Ophidian Forest is, and what your music is about?

Zaragil: Ophidian Forest is a Croatian/Dutch/US pagan black metal collaboration. The three of us in the band are individuals living on different parts of the globe who have been, and still are, writing together for an US underground metal webzine. 
Some time ago I started talking to the person known as Otrebor about making my own music, and since he's also a drummer he told me that he'll gladly play the drums for whatever I come up with on guitar. Soon after that, I started writing and recording the guitar tracks, and by chance I started corresponding with another writer who asked if he can join in. 
When I started having the idea of making my own music I have hardly thought of letting other people joining in, but now I'm glad I did, and Ophidian Forest would probably never even begin to exist without the other two. 
After the craziest audition in existence (Amalgamoth screaming random nonsense anti-Christian lyrics into a mini disc recorder while driving, and then emailing me three different versions of it) the lineup was completed, tracks started flying around the world and the rest is a bit blurry. All I know is that, somehow, a year later I was holding a professionally mixed and mastered CD in my hands, sounding absolutely nothing like I had imagined or planned, but to this day I still enjoy listening to it.

Recently we have also signed a record contract with Eichenwald Industries, a new UK-based label run by Duncan Dinsdale, who used to be the man behind Rage of Achilles records. To name a few, the man has discovered bands like Anaal Nathrakh, Frost, Cult of Luna, Omnium Gatherum and Mistress, so I'd say we're in good hands. 

To answer the second part of the question - it's hard to say what the music is about without actually playing it to someone. Every song has its own individuality, and stands on its own. 
Basically, the music is Pagan black metal, but without using the standard ways of expression, usual melodies or folk influences. 
It's direct, raw, proud, painful, slightly demented and very much alive - most of the tracks were composed, learned by heart and then recorded in one take, warts and all. 
From my side it's rage, an individual stuck in the middle of nowhere, in a shithole little city with no real friends, money, support or company, creating my own landscapes whichever the hell way I could, using whatever I had at my disposal. Just to show that it can be done. Three year old strings and rusty pick-ups? One crappy distortion pedal with one good sound in it? Hell yeah, they work and things can be done with them. 
Everyone I ever played with used to be obsessed with technique and sound, playing cover songs and looking cool.
And now they have turned into local drunks, and I have a record deal. And I'm still not sure I can properly play "Smoke on the Water". 
Screw cover songs, I make my own. It's my own black metal.

Lyrically, most of the inspiration for our debut comes from the most glorious time of the Frisian kingdom around the start of the 8th century CE, led by the brave king Redbad (680-719). His last-minute rejection of getting baptised in favour of joining his Pagan ancestors in what the Christians call Hell has become a legend of its own and is in our day still commemorated by some people. So, we have named the album after him. 
Apart from that, some texts are fiction, and some based on Frisian history and Norse mythology - our singer, Amalgamoth, lives in that area and is always researching something. A note: All the lyrics about slaughtered Christians are based on true stories. It's sweeter this way. 

2. What is touring like for Ophidian Forest, do you have Ophidian Forest groupies?

Zaragil: As I said, the three of us live in three different countries - Otrebor lives in San Francisco, Amalgamoth is from The Netherlands and I live in Croatia. We have never met each other in person, never even talked by phone, and we prefer it to be like this. If we ever met I think the universe would implode, and I doubt we'd get any further than one or two rehearsals. This way, our method of work is "democratic tyranny" meaning that you can do whatever you want, but you have to do with what the person before you has recorded. I don't think that any shows will ever occur, and I don't regret it. I've played live before and it meant nothing to me. I make my music for myself. If someone likes it - great. If they don't - they can look elsewhere. But I'm bloody well not playing my songs to a bunch of unknown people, most of them not having a clue about what's going on, being there just to get drunk or to be "seen" as a part of the "scene" and act like retards because it's "cool". And some of them probably Christians? No thanks. Groupies? We're not a bloody rock band! We do have some female MySpace friends, and I suppose those are the ones that didn't get scared away by too many letters, the band not looking "cute" and the sound not being like every other band's. But in reality, noone in my city knows what I'm doing, and even if they did, noone knows what this "black metal" thing is. 

3. What are your thoughts on the oxymoron of Christian Metal?

Otrebor: Now there's a loaded question. I suppose you mean it to be rhetorical. You might have gathered by now we're not pro-Christian, but classifying Christianity and metal as antitheses is absurd. After all, Trouble are without doubt a Christian band, and I've never heard them classified as anything other than metal... and one of the most important metal acts in doom history, at that. 
Singing about the Christian god over an aped version of Darkthrone would still be metal... and you might not even tell if you didn't have a lyric sheet. A more interesting analysis is what makes metal music metal. The thing that every single genre and variety in the metal canon has in common. The best answer I've come up with is 'palm-muted riffs'.

Zaragil: Sadly and obviously, Christians have always been present in metal. I'm talking about bands who are basically Christian, and take the devilish lyrics and imagery as nothing more serious than a musical form of a horror story. 
For an example you need not look any further than Black Sabbath - singing about the Devil while wearing crosses - and everyone has seen Ozzy saying "Thank you. God bless you." in-between songs. Still, to a point this was tolerable - at least it used to draw people to the dark side and make them look further. 
But now, there are bands actually singing about how good it is to be a Christian, and this is where I draw the line. I'm told that there are Christian Black Metal bands as well. What??? Sometimes I have to review Christian metal (power, heavy, prog, melodeath) and they can't do even that properly. Metal, generally, shouldn't be on speaking terms with Christianity. For all the diversity and open-mindedness, the inclusion of Christianity still makes me sick. Look - it's history repeating, just like 1000 years ago. First you have just a few of them, and the people say "let them be, they are harmless". The next thing you know you're in the Dark Ages, just back from a Crusade to find your wife is burning on a stake. Or something similar. I'm ashamed to admit that there are far more articulate anti-Christian people outside of metal than inside of it. 

4. What do you think of the new Metallica, and how this supposed to be the release that they return to their roots? 

Otrebor: I've heard some. Of what I've heard, the music sounded good. If you're into Metallica, that is. I'd like to hear more, but the production deters me. It's terrible. It's pushed to the wall and mastered so hot that it exhausts your ears after five minutes.
It's so compressed that the snare drum crunches with each hit. This is the unfortunate road that our music is traveling down: who can seem the loudest. People forget there as such things as volume knobs, and so Metallica fans like one of my bandmates (in another band), are super excited that there's a new record, thinks the music is great, but has listened to "Death Magnetic" a couple times, never all the way through, and probably won't listen to it again, because the production is so unpleasant. He's anticipating hearing the "Death Magnetic" stuff live. That really sucks. 
The irony I won't deny is that Ophidian Forest's debut, "Redbad," is also compressed to an inch of its life. Objectively, I think it's too much and I can guarantee that "Redbad" will remain the only Ophidian Forest to be as sonically punishing in this way.
I'm not apologizing for it. It was something to do; our agreed model was Ulver's "Nattens Madrigal," and we've succeeded in making an album that is fucking weird and ugly. Hey, people like it, and it's got us a contract. So I can shut the fuck up.

Zaragil: Hmmm. I've listened to it a couple of times, and I can't say I'm overly impressed. If it was an unknown band I'd say that they can play (except the drummer), pay attention to the modern developments in rock/metal, can write a few memorable parts, but tend to throw in too many unnecessary things and overstretch the songs. The sound is OK for a debut, although it could have been better. But they're still young and promising, so who knows - in a year or two they might come up with something really interesting... oh wait - it's Metallica? Beh. Stopped caring about them around 1992, and I don't understand why people still want to talk about them.
It's them and Iron Maiden - whatever crap they record, people will keep on buying it, attending their shows and talking about them.
Aren't there any better bands around? Those who don't already have millions? If everyone talks about it, and buys it, and doesn't care if it's good or bad, it doesn't mean you have to. Almost like talking about Jesus. 

5. Have you been able to live off of profits from Ophidian Forest or do you hold down some shitty job, like the rest of us slobs? 

Zaragil: You slobs are lucky. I don't have a job and live below the poverty line, because there are no jobs in my area apart from being a waiter or a lumberjack, and in both cases getting a paycheck at the end of the month isn't certain at all. This is the underdeveloped part of the country. Meanwhile, the Croatian Church has ordered the priests to stop buying Mercedes cars as they are too flashy, so the poor paedophiles now have to drive Volvos. And profits? We'll be happy if we earn enough to get back for what we invested into mixing and mastering. 

Otrebor: There is little to no money in making music that most people couldn't possibly like. 

6. In response to the question above, if so what do each of the members of the band do, to support themselves outside of the band? 

Otrebor: You wouldn't be supporting yourself with a career with the IRS, would you? 

Zaragil: Amalgamoth is a painter and occasionally gets a job because you can't really live off non-commercial art. 

7. What bands have been cool to you, and what bands have been total dicks? 

Otrebor: Most bands in metal are friendly people. There's something about being part of a perceived elite club that makes it so.
Immortal's one of my favorite bands ever, but I do have to say that Abbath is a bit of an ass. That's ok, though. People don't need to be nice or mean for me to like or dislike their music. Positively, I'd like to give a shout out to consistently cool people, like Paul Ryan of Origin, who works at the local Guitar Center and has hooked up all the good metal folks for years.

Zaragil: I can judge only from MySpace as I never meet any bands or musicians outside the internet (and maybe those I interview). 
Some bands have been absolutely cool - Ancalagon from Crebain has helped us sell all promotional copies of our album in the CD shop he works for as a metal buyer. Some other bands have put us in their "top friends" and generally, I'd say that the friends we have are mostly real ones. We exchange quite a few messages with them, keep up with what they're doing, and so on. 
And... dicks? Scandinavians in general. They don't talk to you, don't thank you for the request or the compliments, don't comment or whatever. Even the crappy unsigned bands think they're way above else because they are from Scandinavia. I think it's the fact that they actually do it for money or groupies, or just to make noise, and don't really have anything to say. Idiots. But okay, a couple of them are quite cool - usually the bands who DO have something to say, in their music as well. 

8. What is the metal scene like in your area? Do you have a lot of local supporters, have you seen any of your releases in the local music stores? 

Zaragil: There's not much of a scene in my part of the country, apart from the kiddie cover bands. Apparently there is some kind of a scene in Croatia but it's troubled by a lack of money, places to play and support. Even if those three things were the way they should, there would still be very few bands you could consider to be more than just kids' hobby bands. I don't think we have any support in Croatia - probably because we don't sound like In Flames or Iced Earth. Also, there isn't a "local music store" in my city. 

Otrebor: Local, internationally famous stores Amoeba Records and Aquarius Records have carried the pre-release, limited to 66 copy, DIY version of "Redbad." Thanks to Ancalagon of Crebain (whose mortal form is of a buyer at Amoeba) for his enthusiasm for our record, and to Andee of Aquarius, whose label, tUMULt, is one of the best in the world. One of my personal goals is to one day be one of the elite bands to be on tUMULt. One day. 

9. Which release is your personal favorite? 

Zaragil: I suppose you mean Ophidian Forest? I'd say that it is, and will always be, Redbad - the debut. Although we're already mixing the follow-up, nothing similar will ever happen again, the exact circumstances, the sense of adventure and realizing what shape it has assumed. 
Outside of Ophidian Forest, I have a number of all-time favorites, and other favorites change on a weekly basis. 

Otrebor: My favorite album of all time remains Stars of the Lid's "Tired Sounds of Stars of the Lid." Particularly disk 2. 

10. What are the biggest influences for your band? 

Otrebor: This will no doubt change from album to album. I can only really speak for myself in saying that no Ophidian Forest will be like any other. What are "Redbad"s influences? Ask Zaragil and Amalgamoth. For the drums, I was more interested in not relying on the tried and true polka-from-hell, skank black metal beat that is the go-to rhythm for four out of five Bm bands worldwide.

Zaragil: None really. Throughout the years we've heard thousands of albums and probably each and every one has influenced us in a way. 
But in the end - it's ourselves. Even if I tried to carbon copy another band I know I'd stray into a completely different direction. 
For example, I know I wanted to make something like Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger, but after one track written in that style I got bored and started exploring other directions, writing different riffs and trying other song approaches. In the end it turned out to be something entirely different to anything I've heard before - and still honest, straightforward and natural. At least to me it is. 

11. What are your thoughts on Christianity, and the followers of Christianity? 

Otrebor: With all things being equal, I have no issues with followers of Christianity. There are people in the world that gain just as much positivity and life affirmation from being Christians as there are Buddhists, Pagans, or Muslims. We all need something to believe in, 
and it being real or provable has little bearing on that need, nor do those things really matter. My issue, that seems to be quite prevalent with Christianity, is when people try to push their beliefs on you. Proselytizing is obnoxious and narrow minded, and generally a result of a pitifully narrow world view. I suspect Zaragil's answer will be more vitriolic, as the recent violence between Serbia and Croatia has given him a far more real rationale for disliking Christians. 

Zaragil: What, again? For people on MySpace reading this - check out our "What is Christianity?" blog entry, and the ensuing discussion. 
For those too lazy to go there, briefly - Christianity, just as any other anthropocentric monotheistic religion, is a gathering point for retards, people with no brains, no individuality, no spirit and no real emotions. 
Also, it doesn't give a damn about Nature or anything apart from the flock which finances it. And it isn't capable of validating any other worldview (or: if you don't believe, die) while I have never seen Pagans fighting Satanists or atheists. Generally, I view the Church as a well oiled terrorist organization and it should be treated as such. With all the "logic" in the Bible, believing in it is quite similar to trying to make a computer work while leaving the viruses in. 
Also, where I live it's an alien religion and since we're not Palestinians I'd prefer people to believe - if they have to believe in something - in our European Gods. Christianity is a long and sick subject, so I'll stop here. 

12. Do you support someone downloading your music off of a peer to peer site? 

Zaragil: No - with my internet connection and the phone bills I have to pay I can't even afford to download others' music, and I find it hard to accept that someone will be downloading my music. It's, after all, something we all worked on for a long time, tried hard, argued, spent our energy, emotions, hours and days in making it the way we wanted, and also spent some money on it. But it can't be stopped - so, at least I'm hoping that some of those who download it, and like it, will buy it. If you have to steal from bands, steal from those who can afford to lose money or gain it from other sources than CD sales (touring, merchandise) - Metallica and Iron Maiden are a good example.

Otrebor: Like I said, there is no money in music most people couldn't possibly like, so I don't give a shit if people download our stuff. 
I personally abhor mp3s; I don't listen to them. I collect albums. If there's an album I like, I'll pay for a hard, original copy of it. 
The better the artwork and packaging, the greater the desire. Metal is one of the last surviving genres in which fans still buy CDs, because that's what a lot of true metal fans do. You can ask Ancalagon at Amoeba about this. 

13. Thanks for taking the time to do these questions. Feel free to say what you want,advertise the band, post links to your Moms nudes, whatever the hell you want. 

Zaragil: Thank you for the support. The questions were quite inspiring and I don't regret spending a few hours of my life in replying to them. I'd just like to invite people to visit us at http://www.myspace.com/ophidianforest and have a listen to the four songs. All of them are from our debut, Redbad, which will be released in January. We have already had some very positive feedback and a great review in Metal Maniacs. Meanwhile, we're already mixing the follow-up, and some parts for the third album are already written and recorded. 
Also, this week we have launched the official website at http://www. ophidianforest. com so feel free to drop by, and if anyone is interested in link exchange, contact us. We're always working on something. So, like us or not - you can't stop us. 

ACM Admin: Thanks again to the guys in Ophidian Forest, for taking the time, and effort to answer ACM's 13 questions. 
Hopefully down the road, we can do it again.